Jiddu Krishnamurti – To understand what the mind is to do, we must go into the question of meditation. Please follow this. They are related, they are not something extraneous, about which the speaker is talking about. When we use the word `meditation’, don’t take postures. Don’t sit suddenly straight. That is one of the things that has been brought over from India.
And when we go into this question of meditation, please look at it as though you have never heard the word, or the meaning of that word, or anything about it. But unfortunately you can’t do that because you have a lot of gurus, sannyasis, swamis, and all the rest of that gang, that come to this country or to America, to teach you how to meditate, how to sit properly, how to breathe, how to concentrate and all the rest of it.
So what is meditation? Not how to meditate: that is irrelevant. The moment you understand what is meditation it naturally happens, like breathing. You breathe naturally. So you have to find out what is meditation. Right? Can you learn from another? Can you learn from another what is the real meaning of meditation?
Volumes have been written about it, people have meditated according to a particular system – Zen, or the Hindu systems of many, many varieties and models and methods of system – the content of all those imply an end to be achieved through control. Right? Control implies a controller. Please follow this a little bit. And is the controller different from the controlled? You understand the question?
They say – the whole meditative groups, and their systems and their philosophies, their breathing – they say, control your thought, because thought wanders about, and the wandering about is a wastage of energy. And therefore thought must be absolutely held, disciplined, subjugated in the pursuit of that thing – enlightenment, God, truth, what you will, Jehovah, the nameless – all that! That implies a controller, obviously. Right?
And who is the controller? Is he different in quality, in nature from that which he says he is going to control? You are following all this? Please, this is very important to understand because the speaker wants to point out that one can live completely in daily life without any control, against all the traditions. You understand? Against all your education, your social, moral behaviour. So he says, live a life without absolutely any controls, but that means you have to understand very, very deeply who is the controller and the controlled, and this is part of meditation.
Is the controller different from that which he is controlling, which is thought? Some say the controller is different: he is the higher self. Please listen to all this. He is the higher self, he is the part of higher consciousness, he is the essence of understanding, the essence of the past which has accumulated so much knowledge. So they – the whole traditional, and the gurus, and the swamis, the yogis, all of them say – control! Right? They have never asked, who is the controller.
They may have asked it, but they have translated it, yes the controller is the supreme self – which is still within the field of thought. However much thought may be elevated, it is still within the area of time and measure, which is thought. Right? Do please see this. See the truth of this, not the verbal acceptance of it, or the intellectual comprehension of it, but the truth of the matter: that all the gods – Christian gods, and the Hindu – all of them are the invention of thought. And thought can project itself into all kinds of states, into all kinds of illusions, and when thought says, there is the higher self, it is still within the field of thought, and therefore the higher self is still matter. I wonder if you get this?
So the controller is the controlled. Right? Do see this. Therefore the whole aspect of meditation changes. And what is the meaning of meditation? The meaning of meditation is – objectively, not my personal opinion, judgement, evaluation, dogma, experience, none of that – meditation means the emptying of consciousness of its content. Then only can the mind and the brain be absolutely quiet. That absolute – not relative – absolute quietness is necessary to observe, not to experience. Right – please see all this.
Most of us want experience – experience which we have had – sensory experiences, sexual, every kind of experience we have had – and thought desires more experiences, an experience of another state, of another dimension. Right? Because we are fed up with this world and its experiences – they are boring, they have a limitation, they are confined, narrow. And we want an experience which is totally different. Right? Now to experience involves recognition. Right? You are following? If I do not recognise, is there an experience? I have had the experience of looking at a mountain: the beauty of it, the shadows, the lovely deep blue of an early morning, the whole sense of something extraordinary, magnificent. And that experience cannot exist if there is no relationship to the past. Right?
So experience implies recognition from the past. Obviously – it is so simple. So I want to… the mind wants to experience something supreme; and to recognise it, you must have already had it, therefore it is not the supreme. You understand? It is still the projection of the mind, of thought. So meditation in which there is no experience. Swallow that! Because in that there is no element of time. Are we meeting each other? As we said, time implies movement and direction. Direction implies will. And can the mind empty itself of time and direction and movement, which is the ending of thought? That is the whole problem. You understand?
Are we following each other – or is this still verbal description, and you are just enjoying the speaker’s delight in talking about meditation? We are asking: what is meditation? We said it is the emptying of the mind of the known. Emptying of the mind of its content as consciousness, with all its accumulation, and whether that is possible. Right? Because we need knowledge to function, to speak any language you need knowledge, to drive a car you need knowledge, to do anything you need knowledge.
And what place has knowledge in meditation? Or, it has no place at all. It has no place because if it is merely a continuation of the past, it is still the movement of time, the movement of the past, and so on. Have you understood? So can the mind empty itself of the past, and come upon that area of the mind which is not touched by thought? You have understood the problem – my question?
You see, we have only operated so far within the area of thought as knowledge. Right? Is there any other part, any other area of the mind, which includes the brain, which is not touched by human struggle, pain, anxiety, fear – all the violence, all the things that man has made through thought? Right? And the discovery of that area is meditation. That implies, can thought come to an end but yet for thought to operate when necessary, in the field of knowledge?
You understand my question? Please understand this question – pay a little attention, you may be tired but just give a little attention to it. We need knowledge, otherwise you cannot function, you can’t go home, you wouldn’t be able to speak, you wouldn’t be able to write, and so on. Knowledge is necessary to function, and that functioning becomes neurotic, out of function status becomes all important, which is the entering of thought as the `me’, which is status. Right?
So knowledge is necessary. And meditation is to discover, or come upon, or to observe an area in which there is no movement of thought, and can the two live together harmoniously, daily, in action? That is the problem, not breathing, you understand, not sitting straight, not repeating mantras, you know, slogans, paying a hundred dollars, or whatever you pay in order to learn some ugly little word, and repeat that, and you think you are in heaven, which is called transcendental nonsense!
And that is the whole problem of yoga, practising yoga, standing on your head and proficiency in yoga, and all the rest of it. It must originally have had a totally different meaning. The word `yoga’ means to join – to join the higher and the lower. You follow? That was what we have, but it must have quite a different meaning, because who is it that has divided the two, and who is it that joins them together? You follow? It is still thought. Right?
So yoga exercises are excellent. One must do it. I do it – the speaker does it every day, for an hour or more, but that is merely physical exercise of a different kind, to keep the body healthy, breathing and so on. But through that, you can never come upon the other. Never! Because if you give to that all importance, then you are not giving importance to the understanding of yourself – which is to be watchful, to be aware, to give attention to what you are doing every day of your life: how you speak, what you say, what you think, how you behave, whether you are attached, whether you are frightened, whether you are pursuing pleasure, and so on. To be aware of this whole movement of thought. If you are, and if you are really serious about it, then you will have established right relationship, obviously. You understand?
You know relationship becomes extraordinarily important when all things about you become chaotic. When the world is going to pieces as it is, relationship becomes extraordinarily important. There you seek security, you want to hold on to that one thing that can possibly give you a complete sense of unity, and all the rest of it. Right?
So unless there is this establishment between you and another of total relationship, that means a world relationship, not between you and me, but human relationship with the whole of the world, that is the basis: from there you can go on to behaviour – how you behave. If your behaviour has a motive, then it is not behaviour. If your behaviour is based on pleasure or on reward, it is not behaviour. It is merely the pursuit of pleasure or fear – not the pursuit of fear – fear arises.
So relationship, behaviour, and order – these are absolutely essential if you want to go into the question of meditation. If you have not laid this foundation, then you can do what you like – stand on your head, breathe in for the next ten thousand years and repeat words, words – there will be no meditation. You can even go to India if you have the money. I don’t know why you go to India – you will find no enlightenment there.
Enlightenment is where you are. And where you are, you have to understand yourself. Having established that, laid the foundation there, order – not mechanical order, because order is virtue, from moment to moment, it is not following a pattern, it is not the order for the establishment, it is not the order or the virtue of society, which is immoral. So order, behaviour and relationship. Then you can go into the question of finding out what is meditation.
Meditation implies a quality of mind that is absolutely silent, not made silent, not a contrived act, not brought about through will, but a silence that comes in naturally when you have established order, relationship and behaviour. And silence is necessary, because otherwise you can’t see. Right? Please see this. If my mind is chattering, as most minds are, in that chatter there may be a period of silence – between two chatterings there might be a period of silence, but that is not silence. Silence is not the absence of noise.
Silence is not the absence of conflict. Silence comes only when the content of your consciousness has been completely understood and gone beyond; which means the observer and the observed are one. And when there is no controller – please listen to this. When there is no controller it doesn’t mean that you live a life of undiscipline, but when there is no observer, no controller, action then is instantaneous, which brings a great deal of energy. Right?
So meditation means not only the emptying of consciousness of its content, and that happens only when you observe your consciousness and its content without the observer – please see this. Right? Can you look at something, whatever it is, your wife, your husband, your girl, your boy, or the mountains, without the observer. The observer is the past. And as long as there is the observer, he will inevitably translate everything he observes in terms of the past, and therefore he is the maker of time. And he divides the observed, and the observer. And therefore in that there is conflict. When there is an observation without the observer, there is no conflict, there is no past, only the fact, and you have the energy to go beyond it. Do it and you will find out!
So meditation implies a gathering of all energy, because you have established order, relationship, behaviour, therefore you are not dissipating energy in that field, and therefore you have energy. And that energy is necessary to look without the observer. Right? So that you have the energy to go beyond. And with that energy, which has not been dissipated, the mind sees there is an area which is not touched by thought. But all this requires tremendous attention and energy and discipline. You understand? It is not just a plaything for some immature, idiotic people.
It requires tremendous discipline. Now discipline means – the word in the dictionary means to learn. Do you understand? Not the absurd thing that we have made of it – that we must control, we must subjugate, we must imitate, conform. Discipline means to learn. Disciple. From the word `discipline’, comes the disciple. Disciple who is one who is willing to learn from the master. Learn. Here there is neither a disciple nor a master, but only the act of learning, all the time. Right? And that requires a great deal of attention, a great deal of energy, so that you are watching, you create no illusion. You understand? Because it is easy to create illusions. Illusions exist only when you are pursuing, demanding, wanting an experience. Desire creates illusion: wish creates illusion.
You know all this implies a mind that is very, very serious, a heart that is of love, that has never been hurt. You understand? We human beings from childhood are hurt; our parents hurt us, our friends hurt us, and in the business world we are hurt. We are hurt in every direction, and when we are hurt we cannot possibly love. Right? So is it possible for a mind that has been hurt, to be free of all those hurts, which is part of the consciousness?
And you will find, when you look at it, that it is utterly and irrevocably possible to empty all hurts, and therefore to love, to have compassion. To have compassion means to have passion for all things, not just between two people, for all human beings, for all things of the earth, the animals, the trees, everything the earth contains. When you have such compassion you will not despoil the earth as we are doing now, and we will have no wars. You understand all this? It is up to you, gentlemen and ladies.
So, a mind that is serious, totally dedicated, concerned, it is only to such a mind meditation means something extraordinary, something so immense, because in that meditation you discover… mind discovers space. You know what space is? This tent contains space. Right? There is this tent, and space in held within that tent. And there is space outside the tent. Right? And thought creates the space round itself.
Have you noticed it? Thought as the `me’ creates the narrow space in which it acts. Which is, it has created through hurt, through all kinds of reasons, a wall within which it lives. Right? There is that narrow space, and the space which thought has created outside of itself, as the tent, and is there a space – not science fiction space – is there a space which is not… which has no frontiers, which has no boundaries, and therefore no centre. You understand? I wonder if you understand. This is part of meditation, too. This is meditation, to find out.
So to find out what it is, as long as there is a centre, the `me’ or the idea of the `me’, with all its attachments, all the rest of it, that very centre creates a space round itself, and where there is a centre there must be a border. The border may be extended, but it is still within the space which the centre has created. Meditation means to come upon that space in which there is no centre, and therefore no direction, and therefore no time. And all this is meditation. Right?
Because without meditation and the coming upon that thing which is not experiencable, which is not to be put into words, which has no time, which has no continuity, unless there is meditation, life has very little meaning. Do you understand? You may have a lot of money, or no money, you may be attached to your property, to your wife, to your friend and all the rest of it: or you may worship your particular little god which thought has invented – the Jesuses, the Christs, the Buddhas and all that – as long as you live there, there will be suffering, pain, anxiety and violence. And that has no meaning in itself – obviously. So unless you come upon this – not invented, not projected, not brought about through any system, then only life has an extraordinary sense of beauty and meaning. Right, finished.